Dear members,

This article in the New York Times is a fine example of how the
archaeologists-scholars from both the United States and England are
really unfamiliar with the significant archaeological undertakings
conducted in the historic center of Rome in these last few years,
not only of Prof. Carandini's work, but also of others Italian
scholars work in Rome as well.

Furthermore,in also demonstrates on the part of English speaking
archaeologists-scholars of lack of appreciation, or what I refer to
as sheer laziness to really familiarize themselves with the
published works, now readily available online and in print of not
only Prof. Carandini's work and other Italian scholars etc.,
currently available from the City of Rome's Department of
Archaeology, The La Sapienza University of Rome, and the Italian
Ministry of Culture, for example:

According to the article in the New York Times,(full version below
in English & Italian):

"Dr. Carandini's most recent discoveries have not yet been formally
published - a fact that in itself raises some scholarly eyebrows."

For one thing, Dr. Carandini as well as other scholars have made
available these preliminary findings available on several web-sites
and in many forthcoming publications:

**note - the links below you may have to paste them into you web
browers from them to properly work**

1.La Sapienza - Dipartimento di Scienze Storiche, Archeologiche e
Antropologiche dell'Antichità, Università degli Studi di Roma

Andrea Carandini - Scavo alle pendici settentrionali del Palatino a
Roma.

N. Arvanitis, La casa delle Vestali d'età arcaica, in Workshop di
Archeologia Classica 1, 2004, c.s.;

C. Cupitò, Il culto dei Lari nel lotto regio: i focolari, in
Workshop di Archeologia Classica 1, 2004, c.s.;

D. Filippi, La domus regia, in Workshop di Archeologia Classica 1,
2004, c.s.;

Id., Dal Palatino al Foro orientale: le mura e il Santuario di
Vesta, in Workshop di Archeologia Classica 1, 2004, c.s.;

E. Gusberti, La cronologia dell'VIII sec. a.C., in Workshop di
Archeologia Classica 2, 2005, c.s.;

A. Carandini, E. Papi (a cura di), Palatium e Sacra via II, BdArch,
c.s.;

A. Carandini, Palatino, Velia e Sacra via: paesaggi urbani
attraverso il tempo, in Workshop di Archeologia Classica, Quaderni,
2004.

http://w3.uniroma1.it/archeologia/Ricerche%20e%
20scavi/Docente015/Carandiniric1.htm

2.Dunia Filippi, 2004 Ricerche e scavi in corso sulle pendici
settentrionali del Palatino. The Journal of FASTI ONLINE
http://www.fastionline.org/docs/2004-20.pdf

Prof. Carandini's & Dott.ssa Filippi's, online article cited above,
provide the reader with an ample descriptions of these recent
findings, which are accompanied by color photos and diagrams.

Also in several interviews by Prof. Carandini & Dott.ssa Filippi,
published in several Italian newspapers and are avalable online,
also offer the reader a detailed, but alternative accounts of these
findings, until the official reports are published. The Newspaper
articles can be found on the Italian Ministry of Culture "RASSEGNA
STAMPA" website,for example: =

Repubblica Venerdi' ARCHEOLOGICI E PAESAGGISTICI: Intervista ad
Andrea Carandini - Benvenuti a casa Numa Pompilio: a questo
indirizzo è nata Roma 18-03-2005

Unità Roma ARCHEOLOGICI E PAESAGGISTICI: Carandini: "Realizzare le
mappe del Palatino" 22-02-2005

Messaggero Cronaca Di Roma ARCHEOLOGICI E PAESAGGISTICI: Intervista
a Andrea Carandini - Carandini: "Ecco la Domus Regia" - "Così
abbiamo scoperto la "Domus Regia" " 21-02-2005.

Ironically, if Prof. Carandini's discovery of the Palace of Romulus
in the Roman Forum, is such an important discovery? Why did it take
the New York Times, nearly three months to report on this discovery,
after it was originally first reported in Feb. 2005 in the Il
Messeaggero, and other international newspapers?

And what happens when Prof. Carandini's works are published? The
English scholar who reviewed Prof. Carandini's most recent works,
Prof. T. P. Wiseman wrote in his review of "La Nascita di Rome (...)
1997:

" I have a confession to make, and an apology. Andrea Carandini's
book has been on my desk for two years. The arguement is very long
and very dense; I have read it carefully and re-read it, but I have
no idea how to review it. A great work but an impossible one, it
both demands serious intellectual engagement and at the same time
defies it."

1.ROMA: ROMOLO, REMO E LA FONDAZIONE DELLA CITTA by A. Carandini; R.
Cappelli.
2.GIORNALE DI SCAVO: PENSIERI SPARSI DI UN ARCHEOLOGO by A.
Carandini [in] The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 91 (2001), pp. 182-
193
3.La Nascita di Roma: Dei, Lari, Eroi e Uomini all'Alba di una
Civilta by Andrea Carandini (1997) [in] The Journal of Roman
Studies, Vol. 90 (2000), pp. 210-212.

After reading about Prof. Carandini's important work in the Roman
Forum since the mid-1980s, when it was first reported in the NEW
YORK TIMES in June 10th, 1988, pg.1 = Newly Found Wall May Give Clue
To Origin of Rome, Scientist Says; and the rather poor quality of
reviews of Prof. Carandini's work that have been published by
English scholars in both professioal journals and the media about
his archaeological investigations in the Roman Forum, I was
wondering what took him so long to express his real views of his
peers acrimonious attitudes towards his research, as cited from the
recent NEW YORK TIMES article May 2005:

"...But after 20 years of digging into the very heart of Rome, he
[Carandini] is also convinced that now, finally, other scholars,
whom he calls "my opponents," will be forced to "shut up."

Thank you
Martin G. Conde
George Washington University
Washington DC, USA
mgconde@...

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Domenica 8 Maggio 2005 IL MESSAGGERO /CRONACA di ROMA pg. 45

LA STORIA OLTREOCEANO
Il palazzo di Romolo? Sul New York Times

Sul quotidiano Usa le scoperte di Carandini: quest'estate la mostra
dei reperti ritrovati

HANNO costruito il loro Campidoglio pensando all'Antica Roma, ora
si appassionano alla disputa sulla natura degli ultimi ritrovamenti
archeologici nel Foro Romano.

Il New York Times, infatti, ha dedicato un ampio articolo,
intitolato «Some say his digging up of a legend is just a Myth »,
alla disputa che divide la comunità degli archeologi dopo la
scoperta di quello che Andrea Carandini, autore della scoperta e
docente di Archeologia a La Sapienza, ritiene poter essere il
palazzo di Romolo e dei primi Re di Roma.

Gli archeologi, infatti, sono divisi tra quanti, come Carandini,
ritengono che il mito della fondazione di Roma sia in qualche modo
verosimile, e quanti invitano a essere cauti e ad aspettare
ulteriori prove. «I miei oppositori - dice Carandini al
corrispondente Ian Fisher - saranno costretti a stare in silenzio;
li posso vedere, un poco alla volta, farsi da parte».
La questione è quanto seriamente prendere la leggenda di Romolo,
l'allattamento da parte di una lupa, l'uccisione del fratello Remo e
la fondazione dell'Urbe nel 753 avanti Cristo.
La risposta di Carandini è «molto seriamente». Secondo lo studioso
le scoperte recenti mostrano che il mito può essere vero, anche se
il nome del primo re potrebbe non essere stato necessariamente
Romolo e se non dovesse essere stato allattato da una lupa.
«Carandini è un archeologo riconosciuto, che ha una maniera di
interpretare i ritrovamenti interessante e piena di immaginazione»
dice di lui Tim Cornell, direttore dell'Istituto di studi classici
all'università di Londra.
«Qualsiasi sarà il giudizio della storia sull'operato di Carandini -
conclude il New York Times - sostenitori e scettici avranno presto
la possibilità di giudicare da soli. Il Comune di Roma sta
organizzando la prima esibizione dei ritrovamenti per l'estate».

May 6, 2005 NEW YORK TIMES

Some Say His Digging Up of a Legend Is Just a Myth.

By IAN FISHER
ROME, May 5 - This is a sublime moment for Andrea Carandini, an
imposing man with white hair under a blue beret who looks every inch
like what he is: one of Italy's most renowned archaeologists. It is
not just that he has discovered something extraordinary underneath
the tightly packed ruins of the Roman Forum: a palace that he
believes belonged to the first king of Rome, who just maybe was
actually named Romulus.

But after 20 years of digging into the very heart of Rome, he is
also convinced that now, finally, other scholars, whom he calls "my
opponents," will be forced to "shut up."

"I can see, little by little, them falling apart," he said, in
English unnervingly more refined than that of most people who grew
up speaking it.

"Opponents" may be too strong a word. But in the two decades that
Dr. Carandini, 68, has excavated in and around the Palatine Hill,
the epicenter of successive generations of Roman rulers, he has
without doubt attracted a fair share of skeptics. That is not for
his skills as an archaeologist or for his discoveries, which
everyone agrees are world class.

The issue, they say, is how much weight to give the mythical
accounts of the early histories of Rome when archaeologists decide
what it is they have dug up. How seriously to take the story of
Romulus, who by legend was suckled by a she-wolf, killed his brother
Remus, then founded Rome on the Palatine, by some accounts, in 753
B.C. (before being swallowed up by a cloud).

Dr. Carandini's answer - and this is what gets him into trouble -
is, very seriously.

In fact, he says his latest discoveries show the myth to be quite
possibly true, even if the king's name was not necessarily Romulus
(though he thinks it could have been), and that his wet-nurse was
not a she-wolf.

The new discoveries, he says, also add weight to one he made in the
late 1980's - still contentious in the sharp-elbowed world of
ancient history - of what he says was a fortifying wall on the
Palatine built by the founders of Rome, dated, he says, to about 750
B.C., the same time as Romulus.

He says he is not, as some of his detractors suggest, obsessed with
the idea of Romulus or proving the Roman legends correct. But he
does think that in the end, he is proving that they are not
completely false either.

"There is a convergence between the king who built this wall and the
literary tradition of Romulus," he said on a recent tour of his
entire excavation, which slopes down from the reconstructed Temple
of Vesta. "I don't say one is identical to the other. I say there is
convergence."

Others say that in his two decades at the site, Dr. Carandini has
sometimes worked backward from myth to explain what he has found,
rather than waiting for evidence to emerge from the finds
themselves.

"He's a distinguished archaeologist, with a very interesting and
imaginative way of interpreting his evidence," said Tim Cornell,
director of the Institute of Classical Studies at the University of
London.

Dr. Carandini's most recent discoveries have not yet been formally
published - a fact that in itself raises some scholarly eyebrows.
But over the last two years, he has uncovered what he says is a
giant aristocratic house, with two big wooden beams, a banquet hall,
seats, pottery and a large courtyard. Just outside the palace, he
says, are other important and related discoveries, notably a house
that he believes held the household fire of the Virgins of Vesta,
the goddess of the early Romans.

On their own, many scholars agree, those discoveries could add
important details to the still-vague history of the early Romans.
But as a whole, they take on a larger significance - and academic
contentiousness - given two other conclusions that he makes.

First is that the palace and what surrounds it could belong only to
a king, and probably the first king of Rome - a claim that if proven
true would be an invaluable historical find. Second, that like his
earlier-discovered wall, it was built at the roughly the same time
as that of the Romulus legend, between 775 and 750 B.C.

For Dr. Carandini, the date is important, not only because to him it
shows some truth behind the legend of Romulus. It also shows, he
says, the development of true political power, a city-state, here in
Rome at least a century before some standard estimates. In other
words, he argues, it provides more evidence that Rome was not what
has often been portrayed, as a backwater lagging behind the Greeks,
waiting for the invasion of the Etruscans from the north for a more
developed political culture.

Many of his critics are hesitant to speak publicly. But Dr. Cornell
echoed the view of half a dozen prominent archaeologists and
classical scholars interviewed by saying Dr. Carandini's theories,
while intriguing, for the moment run ahead of his proof.

"It's always difficult to judge a new discovery in the immediate
aftermath of the discovery," Dr. Cornell said. "I think it will take
20 to 30 years before you can really assess what this find actually
amounts to. At this stage, I would say that it's premature to
suggest that this represents the foundation of Rome in 750 B.C."

Even Eugenio La Rocca, the chief architect for the city of Rome and
a supporter of Dr. Carandini, urged some degree of caution.

"These excavations have yielded really interesting results," he
said. "There are problems of interpretation of the excavations, of
course. We have to analyze it, see if they are private houses or
public houses. It needs deeper investigation, but we can say that we
are at the beginning of something really interesting."

However history judges Dr. Carandini's work, supporters and skeptics
alike will soon have an opportunity to judge for themselves. The
city of Rome will be putting on the first exhibition of his finds
this summer.